Interview with Stewart "Leadfinger" Cunnigham

photo by Juxe Areta Goñi

versione in italiano pubblicata su FreakOut Magazine

Stewart Cunningham founder and leader of Leadfinger is surely to be counted among the best songwriters of the modern Australian rock era. The confirmation came with the release of 'Silver & Black' (Golden Robot Records), the band's sixth album released last February (review here). An album where its author exorcised his personal vicissitudes, the lung cancer that struck him four years ago, the risk of dying and in the less inauspicious hypothesis, having to quit music forever. Then came the pandemic and the total paralysis of the music world, which undermined the certainties of everyone in the industry everywhere. The result was an album full of beautiful sounds and very deep in the themes dealt with in the lyrics, which went beyond the personal sphere and took on a broader scope. We spoke with Cunnigham about all these themes in this interview developed by e-mail.

So Stew, first of all how are you doing?

“I’m well Eliseno, sorry to take so long to get back to you with these answers. Been a busy time here for the band and also with an important election going on here in Australia, politics became a distraction for me”.

With all the things that have been going on in the last few years the time between records seems to have almost no importance, how did you overcome the long period of inactivity?

“I had serious health issues to contend with that started in 2018 and then in 2020 things started to get better for me. I had a few very close calls with death that took a long time to recover from. I was coming out of this very difficult time when Covid-19 came along. It was not really a big let down for me as it was for others because I had already been forced to be a hermit for almost 2 years because of my health issues. Covid/pandemic/lockdowns meant I had more time to recover my health and somewhere in there Leadfinger started to rehearse again. I wasn’t even sure I would be able to play and sing again so it was good to have time on our hands and try a few things without any pressure. I had some new songs written so we just went to band practice and enjoyed playing music. I think for all of us in the band, it was something to take our mind off being restricted and being unable to go anywhere. In between lockdowns we were able to record so we had some luck on our side. There were some false starts and disruptions too but for the most part we were able to adjust and find a way to make this album”.

photo by Emmy Etie

"Silver & Black" is without a doubt your best album and personally I think it's a masterpiece of the modern era of Australian rock, are you satisfied with how it came out and the reception it received?

“I’m just very happy to have had the opportunity to make another album after everything that has happened in the last 4 years. Yes I am satisfied with it, sonically it’s our best album for sure. I believe it would have been even better if we were able to play some of the songs live a few times... but nobody was able to play live at the time so that’s the way it is. The previous album ‘Friday Night Heroes’ we were able to play nearly every song live before we recorded and it’s pretty good but it does not sound as good as Silver & Black. I’m not really sure how it has been received, I know the underground reviews from old contacts I know have been fantastic but it’s mostly ignored by radio and mainstream music industry in Australia. No surprises there. I will be more interested to see if anything good comes of the album in the next year or so, maybe we can get to Europe again or score some good support gigs. One thing I am very happy with is the Vinyl edition of Silver & Black. It is fantastic. I have had a few people I respect tell me what a good vinyl pressing it is and how they love the way it flows with the 3 sides and extra songs compared to the digital/CD version”.

For those who know about the serious health problems you had to face you might think that "Silver & Black" is a very personal album, telling about the spectre of death you saw up close and the subsequent rebirth. But if we only look at it from that perspective we risk diminishing the real scope of these songs, don't you think?

‘No art is possible without a dance with death’ - I read in a book recently (Slaughterhouse 5 - Kurt Vonnegut) ...I think also Ernest Hemingway was also very obsessed with death. Maybe we all are? I have had plenty of dances with death in recent times so if that doesn’t shake you up and motivate you, nothing will. I’ve always tried very hard to make the songs I write have a broader appeal and be relatable to every listener. I’m not comfortable for the songs to just be directly about myself and have no meaning to others. I try to step outside of my own experience and understand that experience, not be too serious about it either. I don’t want the listener needing to know MY STORY to understand the lyric. I also like power pop and melody so I want melody and harmony and power in the music too, this is just as important as the lyrics in conveying feeling and mood”.

“Dodge the Bullet is obviously about my personal experience but I think most people can relate to coming close to death or nearly losing someone they love. It also has hint of humour and joy in it, the music, the harmonica and the joyous ad lib singing at the end...it’s only after you avoid the Grim Reaper that you can sing and laugh about it. You have to laugh about it, it’s a way to deal with the trauma and move on. Sleeping Dogs is another...it’s essentially a motivational song for me, just keep going, don’t let the past haunt me...for me it was life and death, keep on moving forward or else but others can interpret the song differently. Maybe for some they will just think about their pet dog who they love and how cute that dog looks when it is sleeping!!! ha ha ;-)”

photo by Sandra Kingston

Certainly "Dodged a Bullet" and "Sleeping Dogs" are more personal, while "One More Day" and "Find The Words" can be taken on board by any listener. Personally, I found myself very much in the latter, thinking back to when I had to tell my mother the news of my brother's death by covid.

“Yes exactly. “One More Day” is another example, it’s a really powerful rock song with lots of energy and even before the vocal comes in the message of that song is in the guitar playing and rhythms, it’s exciting, intense and edge of the seat rock’n’roll...this is ultimately what life is for all of us if we think about it...but we usually don’t! We take for granted that tomorrow we will wake up as usual but occasionally life tells us, or reminds us to make the most of it cos it will end one day.

“Find the Words” is a song I’m very proud of. It is possibly the greatest ‘song’ on Silver & Black. It has been very cathartic to play it live, very powerful and enjoyable too in the way that it ebbs and flows. Life has those moments where we pause and have to think, there are no words or we have to wait and hope for the right words to come. I can’t imagine how hard that must have been to tell your mother that kind of news but I know my own experience of having to tell my partner that I had a life threatening illness, it was very difficult because it meant I had to fully face this news too. Speaking it makes it real and I guess that’s what the song is about too. Everyone will have been in the situation of having to deliver sad news, it could apply to the ending of a relationship or the passing of family or close friends, it sucks but as you get older, it’s part of life. I’ll admit I have had some very sad times that are reflected in this song...not everyone wants to hear a sad song but for me it was something I had to write, I had to express these feelings. Feelings of fear and of hope too and of needing the help of family and friends. ‘Find the Words’ is an interesting song for the times we live in as well, I’ve had a few people say to me the whole album and especially ‘Find the Words’ reflects the mood of the pandemic times and it’s impact on their lives”.

After the first listens of "Silver & Black" I thought that your songwriting has become more mature, it has grown exponentially with the records and with the work of the band in the arrangement phase that gave a surprising warmth both to the faster songs and especially to the more evocative ballads, it was not easy since we are in front of a record played only with guitars, bass and drums.

“Well I thought about bringing in more instrumentation...piano and more acoustic guitars etc, I think it would have suited many of the songs but we went into this recording to make a ‘rock’ album and especially to make an ‘electric guitar’ album. So with that focus in mind before the recording started, I know from past mistakes that it’s not good to change direction half way through...it’s dangerous and can easily ruin the recording. So when it came time to do the overdubs and add some more melody I decided against bringing other instruments in, I decided to keep a narrow focus on guitars and take that somewhere cool and interesting - I think I succeeded with the help of controlled feedback, double tracking and harmonising the guitar lines. Also lots of harmony vocals and backing vocals, very important. The most important difference with this album is that I was much more critical of my vocals than in the past, I took more care to get things as close to perfect as I could, it’s the best singing I’ve ever done”.

“As for the songwriting and song arrangements, I’ve always tried to move forward with each Leadfinger album and with this album I was determined to learn from past mistakes and improve. Part of maturing as a songwriter is also knowing what to leave out, that takes a lot of courage and having a producer was a big help this time. I probably drove everyone in the band crazy with all of my changes to the songs each week when we met up to rehearse but I was determined to have no regrets this time - Girl on a Bus is a good example of how far we took things - a very complex arrangement and some very nice chord changes - almost a mini-rock opera”.

“I was lucky to be here to make this album so there was no way I was going to compromise on the song arrangements. I’ve always loved finding weird chords and inventive chord progressions and interesting changes, for me it’s a very rewarding side of playing guitar for 30 years, it’s gotten easier, I have a lot of belief in my ability as a creative guitar player. Part of maturing as a songwriter is also knowing what to leave out, that takes a lot of courage and having a producer was a big help this time”.

I think "The Fall of Rome" is one of the best songs ever in Leadfinger's repertoire, both for the writing and the arrangement. Can you tell us how it came about and the beautiful video that accompanies it?

“Thank you...the recording of this song came up so well. It’s the most interesting and poetic song on the album. ‘The Fall of Rome’ came to me in a dream. Not a usual occurrence at all. I woke up with the idea for it and a haunting melody, snatches of lyric and a feeling, the mood of the song...usually I don’t write things down, I try to remember them for later but this was different. The dream was so powerful and so moving and exciting too, I wrote everything I could remember as soon as I woke up. In the dream I was in some old city, maybe Rome?... but I don’t know for sure and a man was showing me around some old ruins and as we walked up some stairs he talked to me about the song I wrote and how it was a big hit (I know, kind of funny). He complimented me on the song and how great it was and of course the song, haunting and beautiful and epic was playing in the dream as we walked around. I can’t go into all the details here, better to listen to the song!! It’s a song about love and how everything must end but it’s not really the end, everything lives on in some way...the metaphor of the Roman empire, gone but it lives on in so many ways. Each of us will leave a mark and leave behind some of us that carries on. Maybe I had watched some documentary or Gladiator a few nights before and it came out in my dream? The mood of it reminds me a little of Don’t Fear the Reaper by Blue Oyster Cult but that wasn’t intentional.

“The video came together with a lot of luck and just trying a few things. It came up much much better than I ever dreamed it would. During a covid lockdown, we couldn’t get together as a band to make a video and we couldn’t hire someone to make a video either because nobody was allowed to leave their suburb or town. So I time on my hands and decided to try something different and try and make something lo-fi myself at home. I thought the main guitar riff for “The Fall of Rome” was pretty interesting the way the fingering danced along on the fretboard, also the guitar I used on the album, the sunburst Epiphone Casino is a very beautiful guitar too so I used those two things as the main visual elements. It all developed from there over a few nights of trial and error with the lighting. Once it started to look pretty good, I realised I needed some extra footage of actual Roman ruins to flesh it all out, so I contacted my old rock ‘pen pal’ friend Roberto Calabrò and he helped me get the extra footage from some friends of his in Rome. Just before release date, the lockdown ended so I was able to film a little of Michael and Reggie (guitarist and bass player) right and the end and include them in the clip too. I can’t help thinking sometimes that the video and song is all a little bit “Spinal Tap’ish” in feeling...but all good rock’n’roll should be a bit over the top. You have to suspend your belief to really enjoy it”.

In "You Oughtta Know" you tell about your experience as a musician and these years in Leadfinger. Are you satisfied with your whole journey and what's different about this band compared to the ones you were in before?

“I’m not wholly satisfied no. So many missed opportunities and wrong decisions. That goes for all of the bands I’ve played in, from the Proton Energy Pills through Asteroid B-612, Brother Brick and The Yes Men to Leadfinger...I’ve put my heart and soul into all of these bands, written all these great songs (in my mind there are many) - quite a few of them didn’t get the right recording treatment or weren’t played well on the day we recorded them, and all of the great gigs (and the terrible ones because of too much drinking etc)...yes, lots of regrets and dissatisfaction, lots of betrayals and disappointments. Lots of great times and good things too. I accept this is the way it is, I’m a flawed character too just like all the bands I played in had flaws. I guess it was the way I was brought up, we were very poor dysfunctional family from the wrong side of the tracks etc. Nice boys don’t play rock’n’roll!! ha ha. I wish I could have made a living out of rock’n’roll or at least had a bigger budget and some more label support for some of the recordings too. What’s different about Leadfinger is that it’s managed to stay positive and keep developing. We’ve even kept the same line up since 2009 through 4 albums. We are still friends in the band and we have great time when we are together. We are more accepting of our place in the scheme of things so we don’t feel any pressure to be successful or something we are not. There’s still a glimmer of hope that maybe we’ll get a few more rewards out of the work we have put in...another European tour would be fantastic. Maybe another album. We shall see. But that’s what You Oughtta Know is about...there is a bit of humour in the lyrics, ‘I can’t believe I’m still doing this’ kind of thing. But I like doing it, I like playing guitar and writing songs, I thought I might have to give up after what happened with my health so it’s a bit of a miracle to still be here. Amusing too”.

"Silver & Black" contains great rock songs like "Nobody Knows" and "Stop Running Away" and is closed by the wonderful "Here Come the Bats" what can you tell us about it?

“I was inspired to write ‘Here Come the Bats’ when there were catastrophic bushfires here in Australia in early January 2020. I was very sick at the time and I was only able to walk 500 metres to the park at the end of my street where I’d sit on a bench and rest and then walk back. I’d do that walk every evening at dusk but a strange thing was happening…everywhere in this part of Australia was on fire and smoke ridden except it here where I live in Helensburgh, a small town near the coast (an hour south of Sydney)…because it was smoke free here, a huge colony of bats had taken refuge in the small valley behind where I live, it’s part of the National Park so it’s just lots of big trees and it has a really shady and cool aspect during the day. This had never happened before, I had rarely seen a bat around here before!…so I’d sit there pondering the meaning of my life and feeling sorry for myself, wondering if I will survive cancer, and slowly the bats would appear flying all around in the dusk sky. It was surreal and I found it inspiring and fascinating. Like me, these animals were taking refuge here in this little corner of the world. Hiding away but still doing their bat things coming out at dusk to look for food ha ha. There was something inspiring in that for me”.

Everyone is gonna take this song to be about Covid or Wuhan or something cos of the title, which is ironic given it is actually a song about the relevance of words/lyrics etc. It’s about the meaning of songs and whether people even care about the words or the experience of the writer/singer…communication, art, meaning etc…is it possible to express what I’m going through and who cares anyway? That’s why it’s such an open ended and vague song lyric…I wanted a song that did not have a clear specific meaning so the listener had to develop their own meaning”.

“The bats have gone now, they were just visiting...but I’m still here and thankful to be so”.

Finally you are back playing live again, tell us about your feelings and how are the audience receiving the new songs?

It is a strange time to be playing live again and we’ve only done about 10 gigs in the last 6 months. It is of course fantastic too but there is also an air of uncertainty about it all from the point of view of the audience, venues and the bands here in Australia. People are still getting Covid here, more than ever actually right now (May 2022) and gigs are still getting cancelled and changed, postponed, it can be quite frustrating and a little bit exhausting. Some people don’t want to go out still which is fair enough too. But after all that time we spent playing these songs in the practice room, it is very exhilarating to play them on a stage and rock out again. The response has been super positive. I don’t think people get to see a band like us very often. We can actually play and the dynamics of these new songs and arrangements are complex, challenging and interesting. We don’t have any gimmicks or dress ups to entertain the crowd so our crowds are often just watching intensely. It’s not until you finish that you get the feedback and it’s always very flattering. Probably the songs that go down best live are Nobody Knows, The Fall of Rome, and Stop Running Away”.

Can we hope for a future European tour?

“This is a hard question to answer right now. We are self managed so my focus has been on playing and trying to promote the album in Australia as best I can. This hasn’t left much time to think about going to Europe again. Realistically it may be more likely to happen in 2023 now. We had such an amazing time in 2017 when we went to France, Switzerland and Spain and we really would like to do it again and play more places but I have no real definite news on this at the moment”.

Finally, I'd like to hear from you about Chris Bailey (legendary fontman of The Saints, who passed away a short while ago n.d.i.) failed to 'dodge the bullet', what did you think when you heard the news?

What role did his music play in your being a musician and in Australian rock?

“It made me stop in my tracks for sure but honestly I wasn’t shocked or surprised, as awful as that may sound. As you get older you come to expect death in a way, I knew he was in his 60’s and had lived a big big life. Nobody goes on forever and so many have left us…Spencer P Jones, Damien Lovelock, Brian Hooper and recently John Nolan (who was only a few years older than me)…I don’t have a list but those are ones that come to mind. So yeah it made me stop and think intensely on how much the music of Chris Bailey has been a part of my life. I remember I met him at a party at the place I was living at in the mid 90’s, we hung out in the Kitchen and talked a bit…I felt extremely nervous but it’s a nice memory. When I heard he passed I thought of that and all the great songs he had written”.

“As for his music and influence. Well he was the underground music hero of this country for almost two decades…a musical hero of mine for sure. In Australia when I was growing up it was the Saints and Birdman…the only two bands that mattered. As I’ve grown older my affection for the The Saints has grown whilst Birdman just seemed to be frozen in time in my late teens. I loved Baileys attitude and style, he had this charisma, intelligent and a bit of humour too. I love his post-Kuepper Saints output and admire the effort, his willingness to develop as an artist, not just stay in the same place. He was a great songwriter and that’s something I aspire to do as well. So many things I gleaned from him, he effortlessly combined and stepped between punk/pop/folk and blues…something I’ve always tried to do in Leadfinger. It’s significant that the first cover song Leadfinger ever played live when we formed was Chris Bailey’s Ghost Ships…it was a small procalamation (to myself mostly), it was about stepping away from my past of high energy rock bands to something more mature and musical and a lyric focusl, inspired by Chris Bailey. As for Australian Rock…so much of it is shallow and fleeting and way over hyped but the music of Chris Bailey is so real and gritty. The great thing is it comes from the underground, from real people like us, not some manufactured major label artist that has paid for it to be heard. Bailey won his fans through the music, not through marketing. I don’t really think much on his influence on Australian rock, for me it’s a personal affection to him and his music that most stands out, if others don’t listen to him or like it, that’s their loss. His albums with, and post Kuepper Saints are all amazing really, lyrically and musically - genuinely world class albums. I’m pretty sure no other Australian songwriter has had someone like Bruce Springsteen record one of their songs…what can you say after that?”

more Leadfinger related articles in this blog

Leadfinger links:

Golden Robot Records website